Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates

This page provides a forum for editors to suggest items for inclusion on In the news (ITN), a protected template on the Main Page, as well as the forum for discussion of candidates. This is not the page to report errors in the ITN section on the Main Page—please go to the appropriate section at WP:ERRORS. Archives of past nominations can be found here.

This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. Under each daily section header below is the transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day (with a light green header). Each day's portal page is followed by a subsection for suggestions and discussion.

A blurb is a one sentence summary of the news story. An alternate suggestion for the blurb is called an altblurb, and any more suggestions get labelled alt1, alt2, etc. A blurb needs at least one target article, highlighted in bold; reviewers check the quality of that article and whether it is updated, and whether reliable sources demonstrate the significance of the event. Other articles can also be linked. The Ongoing line is for regularly updated articles which cover events that remain in the news over a longer period of time. RD stands for the "recent deaths" line, and can include any living thing whose death was recently announced. In some cases, recent deaths may need additional explanation as provided by a blurb; this is decided by consensus.

Hurricane Otis Hurricane Otis (satellite image shown) makes landfall near Acapulco, Mexico, leaving at least 27 people dead. In the United States, 18 people are killed in a mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine. The Sakharov Prize is awarded to Mahsa Amini and the Iranian Woman, Life, Freedom movement. Daniel Noboa is elected President of Ecuador. Ongoing: Israel–Hamas war Russian invasion of Ukraine timeline Recent deaths: Li Keqiang Haydn Gwynne Charles E. Young Bobi Martti Ahtisaari Tony Husband view — page history — related changes — edit

How to nominate an item In order to suggest a candidate: Update an article to be linked to from the blurb to include the recent developments, or find an article that has already been updated. Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates. These are automatically generated (at midnight UTC) by a bot; creating them manually breaks this process. Nominate the blurb for ITN inclusion under the "Suggestions" subheading for the date, emboldening the link in the blurb to the updated article. Use a level 4 header (====) when doing so. Preferably use the template {{ITN candidate}} to nominate the article related to the event in the news. Make sure that you include a reference from a verifiable, reliable secondary source. Press releases are not acceptable. The suggested blurb should be written in simple present tense. Adding an explanation why the event should be posted greatly increases the odds of posting. Please consider alerting editors to the nomination by adding the template {{ITN note}} to the corresponding article's talk page. There are criteria which guide the decision on whether or not to put a particular item on In the news, based largely on the extensiveness of the updated content and the perceived significance of the recent developments. These are listed at WP:ITN. Submissions that do not follow the guidelines at Wikipedia:In the news will not be placed onto the live template. Headers Items that have been posted or pulled from the main page are generally marked with (Posted) or (Pulled) in the item's subject so it is clear they are no longer active. Items can also be marked as (Ready) when the article is both updated and there seems to be a consensus to post. The posting admin, however, should always judge the update and the consensus to post themselves. If you find an entry that you don't feel is ready to post is marked (Ready), you should remove the mark in the header. Voicing an opinion on an item Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated. Please do... Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive, unused and forgotten. Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. Maybe the previous reviewer has missed a problem, or an identified problem has now been fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes may also help administrators identify items that are ready for promotion to the ITN template on MainPage. Point out problematic areas in the nominated article and, if appropriate, suggest how to fix them. If you know exactly what to do, by all means, go ahead and fix it as you see fit. Please do not... Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are usually not helpful. Instead, explain the reasons why you think the item meets or does not meet the ITN inclusion criteria so a consensus can be reached. Oppose an item solely because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is generally unproductive. Accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). Conflicts of interest are not handled at ITN. Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s). Oppose a recurring item here because you disagree with the recurring items criteria. The criteria can be discussed at the relevant talk page. Use the discussion section of an item as a forum for your own political or personal beliefs. Such comments are irrelevant to the outcome of a nomination and are potentially disruptive. Suggesting updates A posted ITNC item that needs correcting can be addressed in two ways: Simple updates, such as updated death tolls in a disaster, linking issues, spelling or grammar corrections, or otherwise anything that does not change the intent of the blurb should be discussed at WP:ERRORS in the ITN section. More complex updates that involve a major change in the blurb's intent should be discussed as part of the current ITNC nomination.

October 28

Portal:Current events/2023 October 28

October 28, 2023 (2023-10-28) (Saturday) Armed conflicts and attacks War in Sudan Battle of Nyala The Rapid Support Forces capture Nyala and the rest of South Darfur, marking a strategic victory for the RSF. (BBC) Disasters and accidents 2023 Darling Downs fires Emergency evacuation orders for the towns of Tara, Wieambilla and The Gums in Australia are in place as more than 32 buildings have been destroyed. (7 News) At least 25 people are killed in a fire at a mine in Kazakhstan. (Reuters)

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RD: Steve Riley

Article: [[Steve Riley (drummer)]] ([[Talk:Steve Riley (drummer)|talk]] · [{{fullurl:Steve Riley (drummer)|action=history}} history] · [{{fullurl:Talk:Steve Riley (drummer)|action=edit&preload=Template:ITN_candidate/note&preloadtitle=In+the+news+nomination&section=new&preloadparams%5b%5d=%5B%5BSteve+Riley+%28drummer%29%5D%5D}} tag])
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sleaze Roxx, Blabbermouth, Loudwire, Yahoo
Credits:

• Nominated by thrashbandicoot01 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American rock musician best known for being the drummer in the bands L.A. Guns and W.A.S.P. thrashbandicoot01 (t) 11:58, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

October 27

Portal:Current events/2023 October 27

October 27, 2023 (2023-10-27) (Friday) Armed conflicts and attacks 2023 Israel–Hamas war 2023 Israeli ground operations in the Gaza Strip The Israel Defense Forces enter the Gaza Strip from multiple directions with infantry and tanks crossing the border. Heavy clashes are reportedly underway. (New York Magazine) Israeli troops advance on the city of Beit Hanoun. (The Atlas News) War crimes in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war At least 33 Palestinians are killed and several are injured, following Israeli airstrikes on at least three residential neighbourhoods in Gaza City. (Al Jazeera) At least 10 Palestinians are killed, including journalist Yasser Abu Namous and his mother, in a series of airstrikes carried out by Israeli forces in southern Gaza. (Al Jazeera) Several people are killed or injured in an Israeli airstrike on the Al-Shati refugee camp which destroyed residential buildings and a nearby mosque. (The Business Standard) The Palestinian Red Crescent says that its medics were shot at by Israeli forces as they treated an injured person in Tubas in the West Bank. (The Business Standard) Six people are injured after a missile hits a building in Taba, Egypt. Israel says that the missile was launched from Yemen. (The Times of Israel) Four people are killed in a pre-dawn raid by Israeli forces in the West Bank. At least 19 people have been arrested. (Al Jazeera) Hamas reports that Israel has disrupted most communication and internet services in the Gaza Strip. (AFP via Onmanorama) Myanmar civil war Various rebel groups across Myanmar, including the Myanmar National Democratic Alliance Army, the Ta'ang National Liberation Army, the Arakan Army, and local defense groups, launch an offensive in northern Shan State and capture several towns and junta outposts. (The Irrawaddy) Russian invasion of Ukraine Crimea attacks Pro-Russian official Oleg Tsaryov is critically injured in an assassination attempt by unknown assailants in Crimea and is reported to be in intensive care. (Reuters) Syrian civil war American intervention in the Syrian civil war The U.S. military says that it has conducted airstrikes on Iran-backed targets in Syria linked to the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. (AP) International relations The Financial Action Task Force adds Bulgaria to its "grey list" for increased monitoring due to strategic deficiencies in countering money laundering and terrorism financing. (AFP via Daily Tribune) Law and crime 2023 Israel–Hamas war protests Thousands of people gather in Chile's capital Santiago to protest against Israel's military actions in Gaza. (The Cairns Post) 2023 Lewiston shootings Authorities in Maine, United States, confirm the death of Robert Card, the suspected perpetrator of a mass shooting that killed 18 in Lewiston, with indications of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. (AFP via France 24) Aftermath of the 2023 Mozambican local elections Protests occur across Mozambique, particularly in the city of Nampula, against the results of local elections which locals claim were rigged. Ten people are injured in clashes with police. (Reuters) Aftermath of the Assassination of Jovenel Moïse A retired Colombian army officer who participated in the 2021 assassination of Haitian president Jovenel Moïse is sentenced to life in a court in Miami, United States. (AP)

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(Posted RD)/blurb: Li Keqiang

Article: Li Keqiang (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Li Keqiang, the former Premier of the People's Republic of China, dies at the age of 68. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Li Keqiang, the former Premier of the People's Republic of China, dies from a heart attack at the age of 68.
News source(s): Xinhua News Agency, TASS
Credits:

• Nominated by 4iamking (talk · give credit)

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Former PRC premier 2013-2023 ✨  4 🧚‍♂am KING  00:30, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support if sourcing issues are fixed. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:36, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Support pretty surprising. article is better than a usual RD nomination considering he was the PRC's head of government. JM2023 (talk) 01:12, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Support RD, Oppose blurb When I said Support the first time it was not nominated for a blurb, only RD. I do not support blurbing this death, it is not notable enough. He was not the active head of government. JM2023 (talk) 17:20, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Support Damn. Didn't think Xi would be that bold. Anyway, the article is sufficient in terms of covering his life, and is also verifiable. Bremps... 02:09, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

We needn't promote baseless conspiracy theories here. Gotitbro (talk) 09:43, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

My bad; I'll stop. Bremps... 16:01, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support Article looks pretty good, two missing refs should be filled quickly. Davey2116 (talk) 02:58, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Support blurb per below. Very influential political figure in the world's most populous country. I would support blurbing a similarly influential U.S. vice president, so this seems appropriate. Davey2116 (talk) 21:34, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

• Needs some ref improvement still. - Indefensible (talk) 03:05, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Considering he was prime minister of such large and important country as China recently, and has been for ten years, and he died suddenly, can we talk about a blurb? Kirill C1 (talk) 06:38, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Definitely an important figure in recent Chinese history but I would be wary of opening ITN floodgates by blurbing essentially the second-(third?) in-command in the political hierarchy as we have only posted the deaths of the highest effective power holders in a country.

Unless the factors of the death itself turn out to be a matter of discussion or interest (it appears to be sudden and unexpected) I think we should stay put. Gotitbro (talk) 09:39, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support blurb His death is significant enough to get the Chinese censors suppressing and downplaying the news – see Chinese Mourn the Death of a Premier. This Wikipedia is then a place that they might look to for details. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:51, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

  We need not approach this from a WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS perspective though. And while reader interest can be factored in it should not be the sole criteria driving a blurb. Gotitbro (talk) 13:58, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

  We'd be posting this because he was "Definitely an important figure in recent Chinese history". His legacy includes the Li Keqiang index. Andrew🐉(talk) 15:32, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose blurb Nothing in the article suggests that he had a major impact (beyond being a leading ruler of China), in comparison to people like Thatcher or Mandela. Sudden heart attack of an older person is not a surprising death. Oppose RD on quality issues only - a good handful of CNs that need fixing. --Masem (t) 12:57, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support blurb per Andrew. Oppose on quality with the CN tags, though there's only 2 of them so I think we'll get this settled pretty quickly. S5A-0043^Talk 13:09, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

  Also I WP:BOLDLY removed the "unexpected" in main blurb because I don't think that's exactly a neutral language we'll probably want to use. S5A-0043^Talk 13:10, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Support Blurb per andrew and also since he played a major force in the politics of China, one of the most powerful countries on earth, for the past decade. Support RD - there are only two CN tags and per WP:ITNQUALITY, one or two "citation needed" tags may not hold up an article. — Knightoftheswords 13:11, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support Blurb. Fairly recently one of the most powerful people on the planet who died relatively young. Also something of a dissident even within his party judging from the article. DarkSide830 (talk) 14:30, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support blurb Sudden death, fairly young, and he was an important figure in Chinese politics until his retirement. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 14:34, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

  Where is "was an important figure in Chinese politics" discussed in the article? I would expect a significant Impact or Legacy section to describe how he altered or affected Chinese politics; my read of the article doesn't suggest this was the case. Masem (t) 17:12, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support Blurb Notable Chinese Politician, died fairly young. TheInevitables (talk) 14:47, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support seems significant, was a significant political figure in China. Editor 5426387 (talk) 15:04, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb as he was a former and a premier of the PRC. Nothing unusual about the death either. I would support a blurb for both Hu and Xi when the time comes. | Pirate of the High Seas (talk) 15:26, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

  But he was prime minister just this March, it's not like he is a figure of past, like Gorbachov or Jiang Zemin, whom we blurbed. Kirill C1 (talk) 15:47, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support blurb notable politician in China, with a sudden death. RIP Kanyewestlover999 (talk) 15:39, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb. This is getting utterly ridiculous. He was not the national leader, so he doesn't merit a blurb. Nothing he did in life warrants comparison with people like Berlusconi, Rawlings, Jiang, Vajpayee etc. who actual ruled their country in person for many years. And the suggestion that his death at the age of 68 is unusual or suspicious is entirely unfounded.  — Amakuru (talk) 16:02, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

  Reminder that china is home to 1/7 of the worlds population... Lukt64 (talk) 16:59, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Support: He was an important figure in Chinese politics and so it should be noted. Rager7 (talk) 16:07, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support blurb per Andrew. He was clearly an important figure in modern Chinese history with huge legacy.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:05, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
• This is absurd. If his position in the government wasn't significant enough that we post it when its officeholder is replaced, then posting his death merely because he previously held the position doesn't even merit discussion. —Cryptic 19:18, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
• @Admins willing to post ITN: BangJan1999 20:10, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support blurb: unlike other former second-in-commands, Li is very current; he only went down from his position seven months ago. Aaron Liu (talk) 20:21, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support blurb per TheInevitables. The 🏎 Corvette 🏍 ZR1^{(The Garage)} 20:38, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support RD, oppose blurb; we wouldn't post if a former French PM died, role is similar This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 20:57, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

  What about a former French PM a few months after leaving office? Aaron Liu (talk) 23:08, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

• Posted RD – Muboshgu (talk) 20:59, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb Many outside observers have remarked that Li was effectively sidelined by Xi Jinping's consolidation of power,[42] with some calling him the "weakest premier" since the CCP took power in 1949. I'm sure he was important in that he was head of government, but I don't see anything so special or transformational that we should blurb this. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:59, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support blurb If he died in office, the event would be more important than a gracefully aged Thatcher or Mandela dying. It's only been a few months since he stepped down, so he's very much in the public eye and I'd argue that the event of him dying is about as important as Thatcher/Mandela's deaths. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 21:53, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb per Amakuru. Nothing in the article or the coverage of his death suggests he is significant enough to blurb. Pawnkingthree (talk) 22:22, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb -- he had no influential power at the time of his death. --Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 22:29, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
• Immediate PULL article is not ready: many lines and paras have no sources. Premature posting. _-_Alsor (talk) 23:52, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
• *Oppose i mean who knows him? 3000MAX (talk) 02:37, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

  About 1 400 000 000 people I guess? Trepang2 (talk) 03:09, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

  Go to WP:ITNCDONT at the top of the page to see that asking questions like "who" are against guidelines. Also, as the prime minister of the PRC, he governed over 1,400,000,000 people, so someone knew him. JM2023 (talk) 04:17, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support blurb, though some additional sourcing is needed in the article. Decade-long second in command of China who was central to formulating its economic policy even if he was sidelined in other aspects of state policy. He only recently stepped down from the post and the death was unexpected (Chinese state media did not have an obit prepared). With the trend of power consolidation he might also be remembered as the last premier with any significant real power for the foreseeable future. Also, while speculative, the deaths of past major Chinese leaders have traditionally been potential focusing lenses for reformer grievances (e.g. 1976 Tiananmen Incident after the death of Premier Zhou Enlai, and the the 1989 Tiananmen protests after the death of Hu Yaobang. The story is already more than just a standard death story, as news sources are analyzing the potential impact it has in Xi Jiping. [1][2] -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 05:35, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

October 26

Portal:Current events/2023 October 26

October 26, 2023 (2023-10-26) (Thursday) Armed conflicts and attacks 2023 Israel–Hamas war Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip War crimes in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war UNICEF condemns the nearly 3,000 child casualties in Gaza, saying that it is a "growing stain on our collective conscience, the rate of death and injuries of children is simply staggering". (Al Jazeera) Three more UNRWA staff members are killed, thereby bringing the total to 38. Around 219 educational facilities have been damaged, including at least 29 UNRWA schools. (Al Jazeera) (OCHA) A total of 101 medical personnel have been killed by Israeli attacks, with 100 others injured. Fifty ambulances have also been damaged, with half of them currently unusable. Hospitals are currently operating at more than 150 percent of their capacity, with around 166 unsafe births occurring each day. (Al Jazeera) Around 200,000 housing units have been partially or completely destroyed in Gaza, representing 45 percent of all housing in the enclave. (Al Jazeera) Oxfam says that Israel is using starvation as a "weapon of war" as the blockade of Gaza continues. (The Guardian) (Mirage News) Israeli ground operations in the Gaza Strip IDF tanks enter northern Gaza in a "targeted raid", with the IDF saying that this is in preparation for the "next stages of combat". (The Washington Post via MSN) Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel Hamas' Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades launch rockets intended to strike Tel Aviv. (Al Jazeera) The death toll in Gaza increases to more than 7,000 people with an estimated 1.4 million people internally displaced. (Al Jazeera) Israel continues raids and arrests in the West Bank, where Palestinian authorities say that more than 1,200 people have been detained. (Al Jazeera) Afghan conflict Islamic State–Taliban conflict Four people are killed and seven others are injured in an explosion at a sports club in Dashte Barchi, Kabul, Afghanistan. The Islamic State claims responsibility for the attack. (AFP via France 24) Kashmir conflict Insurgency in Jammu and Kashmir Five suspected Lashkar-e-Taiba members are killed in a shootout with the Indian Army near the Line of Control in Kashmir. (AFP via The Manila Times) Kivu conflict M23 rebels launch an offensive in Bambo, north of Goma, North Kivu, Democratic Republic of the Congo, leading to significant displacement of residents. (AFP via Le Monde) Disasters and accidents 2023–24 South Pacific cyclone season Cyclone Lola is downgraded after causing widespread damage in Vanuatu. (RNZ) International relations International reactions to the 2023 Israel–Hamas war Israel–United States relations In the first vote under new U.S. House Speaker Mike Johnson, the U.S. House of Representatives passes a resolution that declares U.S. solidarity with Israel. (The New York Times) The office of Florida Governor Ron DeSantis announces that it is sending drones and weapons to Israel to support its fight against Hamas. (The Hill) In a joint statement, the foreign ministers of Bahrain, Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates condemn the forced displacement and collective punishment in Gaza. (Reuters) The Israel and Palestine director at Human Rights Watch states that the Palestinian death toll provided by the Health Ministry is generally reliable, after U.S. President Joe Biden questioned the death tolls. (Al Jazeera) Amnesty International issues a statement calling for an immediate ceasefire to stop the increasing death toll and to ensure crucial aid reaches Gaza amid an "unprecedented humanitarian catastrophe". (Al Jazeera) (Amnesty International) Reactions to the Russian invasion of Ukraine Slovakia–Ukraine relations Slovak Prime Minister Robert Fico announces the cessation of military aid to Ukraine, emphasizing humanitarian support instead. (AFP via The Manila Times) Iran–United States relations An Iranian court orders the U.S. to pay $420 million as damages for the victims of the failed Operation Eagle Claw during the Iran hostage crisis. (AFP via VOA) Law and crime Ulan Japarov, the nephew of Kyrgyzstan President Sadyr Japarov, is placed under house arrest for the remainder of his prison sentence after being sentenced for corruption charges. (AKIPress) Myanmar police arrest 95 individuals in Yangon during a crackdown on online scams which have targeted Chinese citizens and those of other Southeast Asian nations. (AFP via Prothom Alo) The Supreme Court of Korea acquits Sejong University professor Park Yu-ha, previously convicted for defamation regarding her portrayal of comfort women in her 2013 book Comfort Women of the Empire. (AFP via The Manila Times) Politics and elections 2024 Salvadoran general election Incumbent Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele officially registered his 2024 re-election campaign with the Supreme Electoral Court. (Reuters) 2024 United States presidential election U.S. Representative (MN-03) and businessman Dean Phillips launches his campaign for the Democratic nomination. (The Hill) Science and technology Chinese space program The China National Space Administration successfully launches Shenzhou 17, a crewed spacecraft carrying three crew members, from the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center. The spacecraft will dock with the Tiangong space station and replace the current crew of Shenzhou 16. (DW) Sports 2023 Israel–Hamas war protests Fans of Scotland's Celtic Football Club defy their club's directives and wave thousands of Palestinian flags during their team's Champions League match against Atlético Madrid. (Al Jazeera)

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RD: Richard Moll

Article: Richard Moll (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deadline Hollywood
Credits:

• Nominated by Masem (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American actor, best known for his roll on Night Court. Article is sadly the typical mess of missing sources that many actor bios have and a ways away from posting. Masem (t) 23:56, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Indian espionage case in Qatar

Article: Indian espionage case in Qatar (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A Qatari court has sentenced eight former Indian Navy officers to death on charges of espionage. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters, APNews, NDTV, Arab News, Bloomberg, TimesNowNews, Khaleej Times
Credits:

• Nominated by Ainty Painty (talk · give credit)

 Ainty Painty (talk) 16:13, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

The title implies they were spying for India, rather than Indian nationals spying for Israel. It also lacks information. Secretlondon (talk) 16:17, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose - cn tags in the article and I'm not sure the significance of this merits posting ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 16:20, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  All CN tags have been resolved. Kline • talk to me! • contribs 17:09, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, though I still think I oppose this on notability ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 17:19, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Procedural Oppose on account of the issue with the article title that may cause confusion. DarkSide830 (talk) 21:40, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Wait - If this has a widespread impact on relations between Israel, Qatar, and India, as well as the ongoing war, then I'd consider supporting. But that seems dubious 2A00:23C8:B00:AD01:4CA7:190C:4222:72FE (talk) 06:44, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

• Comment When was the time we posted a conviction carrying death, before the execution, or both? Gotitbro (talk) 09:48, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

RD: Syed Abul Hossain

Article: Syed Abul Hossain (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Channel Online
Credits:

• Nominated by Fahads1982 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by OGBC1992 (talk · give credit) and Tails Wx (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Fahads1982 (talk) 11:40, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Comment whole section unreferenced, i put a template, everyone feel free to cite it. JM2023 (talk) 13:07, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Support citations no longer needed JM2023 (talk) 01:13, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support I've inserted references and removed the tag, as stated above. Article looks in good shape to be posted. Tails Wx 01:11, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

October 25

Portal:Current events/2023 October 25

October 25, 2023 (2023-10-25) (Wednesday) Armed conflicts and attacks Gaza–Israel conflict 2023 Israel–Hamas war International reactions to the 2023 Israel–Hamas war The UN Security Council holds an open debate, with many of the nearly 90 countries on the speakers' list calling for a ceasefire amid the increasing death toll in Gaza. (Al Jazeera) (South China Morning Post) Draft resolutions calling for a ceasefire are being considered by both the UN Security Council and the UN General Assembly. (Reuters) Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip The Gaza Health Ministry announces that at least 704 people have died in the past day. The UN relief agency states this is "the highest fatality toll reported in a single day". (The Hill) (Al Jazeera) At least 16 people are killed and several others are injured in Israeli airstrikes in areas including Jabalia, Khan Younis, and the Nuseirat refugee camp. (The Business Standard) Israeli ground operations in the Gaza Strip In a televised address to the nation, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says that he has set the date for a ground invasion of the Gaza Strip with the main goals of the operation being to destroy Hamas and to rescue hostages. (Sky News) Israel bans United Nations officials from visiting the country after remarks on the conflict are made by UN secretary-general Antonio Guterres. (The Independent) At least 11 people are arrested in Hebron in the West Bank following an Israeli raid. Israeli troops stormed several villages including al-Burj and al-Majd. (Al Jazeera) Syrian civil war The Israeli Air Force launches airstrikes on "military infrastructure" of the Syrian Armed Forces in Daraa Governorate, killing eight Syrian soldiers and injuring seven others. (The Times of Israel) Business and economy 2023 United Auto Workers strike Ford reaches a deal with the United Auto Workers, signaling an end to the strike after 41 days. (NBC News) Credit rating agency S&P says that it is downgrading Israel's rating outlook to "negative" to reflect "the risk that the Israel–Hamas war could spread more widely". Fitch Ratings also places a similar negative rating on Israel. (AFP via The Straits Times) Disasters and accidents 2023 Pacific hurricane season Hurricane Otis becomes the most intense landfalling cyclone in the Eastern Pacific basin on record after making landfall near Acapulco, Mexico, and killing at least 27 people in the city, as a category 5 hurricane with 1-minute sustained winds of 165 miles per hour (266 km/h). (AP) Two people are killed, and more than five buildings are destroyed, as more than forty out-of-control bushfires continue to burn in the Darling Downs in Queensland, Australia. (ABC News) Health and environment 2020–2023 H5N1 outbreak Brazil reports the deaths of 522 seals along the coast of Rio Grande do Sul, attributing the cause to avian flu. (AFP via Phys.org) International relations International reactions to the 2023 Israel–Hamas war Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan calls for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and says that Hamas is "not a terrorist organization, it is a liberation group, mujahideen waging a battle to protect its lands and people". (Reuters via Al Arabiya) Russia and weapons of mass destruction The Russian Federation Council unanimously approves the State Duma's bill to revoke Russia's membership in the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty. (The Guardian) Law and crime 2023 Israel–Hamas war Hate crimes related to the 2023 Israel–Hamas war A man is charged with hate crimes after being accused of pepper spraying pro-Palestine protesters that gathered near an Israel solidarity event at a banquet hall in northern Chicago, Illinois, U.S. (AP) US legal organization Palestine Legal says it has responded to more than 260 requests for assistance in the past two weeks, ranging from job losses to the cancellation of classes. (Al Jazeera) 2023 Lewiston shootings Multiple shootings in Lewiston, Maine, United States, leave at least 18 people dead and dozens more injured. The suspected gunman remains at large. (CNN) LGBT rights in Japan The Supreme Court of Japan rules that requiring sterilization as part of gender transitioning is unconstitutional, but sends its ruling on the gender-affirming surgery requirement back to a lower court. (AFP via RFI) Hong Kong Chief Executive John Lee announces plans for Hong Kong to formulate its own national security law by 2024. (AFP via France 24) Surrey Police arrest British Conservative MP Crispin Blunt on suspicion of rape and possession of controlled substances, but is later released on conditional bail. The Conservative Party has suspended Blunt, who continues to sit in the House of Commons as an independent MP. (AFP via TOI) Politics and elections October 2023 Speaker of the United States House of Representatives election Republican Mike Johnson is elected Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives. (AP)

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RD: Helena Carr

Article: Helena Carr (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [3]
Credits:

• Nominated by Happily888 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Stephen (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Malaysian-born Australian businesswoman, wife of Bob Carr. Happily888 (talk) 07:35, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

RD: Bertie Bowman

Article: Bertie Bowman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

• Created and nominated by TJMSmith (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 TJMSmith (talk) 01:03, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support article is well-referenced; though it wouldn't hurt to expand it. Tails Wx 01:13, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

(Posted) Lewiston shootings

Article: 2023 Lewiston shootings (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the United States, at least twenty-two people are killed and over fifty are injured in a mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine (Post)
News source(s): CNN, NBC News
Credits:

• Nominated by ElijahPepe (talk · give credit)

 elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 01:58, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Wait, inclined to support when the article is further expanded. Death toll is double digits, there are three shooting locations, and the gunman is still at large. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:04, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support upon expansion. I rarely support US mass shootings as they are about as common as rain. But this one looks really bad, even by American standards. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:08, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  Actually, large-scale active shooter incidents like this are not that commonplace. The most recent mass shooting in public with over five fatalities was back in January in Los Angeles, and there was a blurb about that I believe 2023 Monterey Bay shooting. Rocketman771 (talk) 03:10, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  That's why I am supporting this. Mass shootings are extremely common in the US. But incidents with double digit fatalities are not. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:48, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Wait Horrifying incident, but we still know very little and the article needs expansion. Leaning support due to scale. The Kip 02:09, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support We have 22 dead and up to 60 people wounded, this easily is in the top 10 worst shootings ever in the United States since 1949. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 02:30, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  If there were, but of our two original sources, one has retracted the claim about 22 dead, and the other simply reports that a local councillor said it could be as high as. Not only does this not crack the top 10, it's not even in the top 5 in the last decade! Nfitz (talk) 11:50, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. We don't post bigger massacres in many other countries. I don't think we even nominated September 2023 Mali attacks after 63 were killed. Or the Karma massacre where somewhere between 60 and 156 people were killed. If the death-toll rises into the triple digits then perhaps reconsider. But these kind of things seem all too frequent - I don't think it's even the biggest mass killing in that country in the last decade - which is hard to comprehend. No prejudice against an ongoing about the lack of gun control there. Nfitz (talk) 02:37, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• @Nfitz: The first one you mentioned was conducted by Islamist militants, the second was by the Burkina Faso Armed Forces. Maine isn't a war zone, here we have one person who killed more people than the state of Maine sees in a year in regard to homicides. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 02:42, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  Granted, it's an event of very poor taste. But the point of Nfitz still stands. Bedivere (talk) 02:46, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  I'm sorry, but what point is that? Are we going to have a "deaths" quota that must be met for it to be included here? Not even the 2017 Las Vegas shooting (worst shooting ever in the USA) was in the triple digits. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 03:03, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  I'm not commenting on whether or not we should add this to ITN as I'm too close to this situation to be objective (see username). But to me, ITN on English Wikipedia is always going to be inherently biased towards events such as this in English-speaking countries over non-English-speaking countries, because the news we rely on to source ITN is predominantly English-speaking and our users are predominantly English-speaking. This is going to be more directly relevant to our readers on English Wikipedia than tragedies in Mali and Burkina Faso. MAINEiac4434 (talk) 03:06, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  Also, this is currently front-page news on BBC and The Guardian, below their coverage of the Israel-Hamas War and ahead of their coverage on the US House Speaker election. It is also currently front page on Le Monde's French website and El Pais's Spanish website. MAINEiac4434 (talk) 03:08, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  I agree with you about the bias, but this should be for a broader community discussion. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 03:11, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  They are going to give a press conference soon with updates. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 03:13, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  Hang on - so this is more important because the dead were Christian instead of Muslim? I don't think so. Looking [4]], I'm having problems finding the last year there were only 16 homicides in Maine. Though that this is so high for Maine is a good point. Nfitz (talk) 11:54, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  This is likely the deadliest mass shooting in Maine's history according to local news, and the 12th deadliest mass shooting in United States (self-ref to navbox) ~ Eejit43 (talk) 12:00, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  Stop building strawmen and calm down. Nobody mentioned the identity of the dead, they mentioned the identity of the killers in context. Mali is experiencing multiple major insurgencies and is a borderline failed state, so is Burkina Faso. Mass killings by Islamic terrorist armies are not so unusual in active war zones where they are combatants. JM2023 (talk) 12:19, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  The use of the word Islamic here us both prejudicial and unnecessary.

  No mass killings in Ukraine? Nfitz (talk) 14:07, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  It's not prejudicial to state that the terrorists are Islamic, I am talking specifically about Islamic terrorists because they are the type involved in jihadist insurgencies which is what you and I are talking about, and they even self-identify as Islamic and motivated by their sect of Islam. This is tangential and the story has already been posted anyway, we can stop now. JM2023 (talk) 14:43, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

You definitely have a point about the systemic bias of Wikipedia, but this isn't a perfect comparison. September 2023 Mali attacks is not anywhere near ITN quality. Karma massacre was created nine days after the event occured, when the news cycle was moving away. Wikipedia is definitely flawed, with a Western-centric slant, but this isn't holding up as a reason to oppose blurbing this particular item. Bremps... 03:48, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

The lack of nomination is the main thing that kept these from being posted. That isn't a fault of the current story. As Bremps pointed out, there were other issues had these been nominated, but the solution is to improve and nominate articles such as these, not punish ones that happen to get more attention. 07:07, 26 October 2023 (UTC) La Ovo (talk) 07:07, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Punish? It's not a contest. Nfitz (talk) 11:55, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Support This one is exceptionally bad even for a shooting in the USA. The fact that the perpetrator is still at large means this is especially pertinent. Bremps... 02:45, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

How many times have we heard that?

Let's see how the death toll goes past 16. I doubt it will exceed 30. It's all too common. Nfitz (talk) 03:48, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Well, it did go past 16 (22 as of writing). Judging by the amount of injured, there is definitely a possibility of the death toll reaching 30. Bremps... 03:50, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Leaning support. This is already monumental for the time and place, and it is almost a certainty that the death toll will rise further in the coming hours, given the number of wounded. BD2412 T 02:51, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support - yes, shootings are more common here in the US than in much of the rest of the world, but 22+ people killed are still very rare. This also happened in part of the country that has a very low homicide rate. -- Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 03:18, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Support - people are likely looking for this, it emphasizes Wikipedia's dynamism, and for those who aren't aware, will easily hook them, or 3 points out of WP:ITNPURPOSE. 72+ casualties is rare, even for an American shooting— Knightoftheswords 03:24, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose because ITN editors refused to post the Nashville school shooter "per ITN precedent with respect to shooting geography". One would assume the precedent stands. JM2023 (talk) 03:26, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Comment The Nashville shooting had eight casualties, this one has at least 70 (and possibly climbing). Bremps... 03:34, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Er, the casualities are only 22, not 70 (we don't include wounded) Masem (t) 03:36, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

I guess, but we also blurbed Robb Elementary School shooting which had the same amount of deaths (assuming the toll from this one does not increase). So we would have a precedent for posting this one. Bremps... 03:45, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Considering Support. Mass shootings may be common in the US but, I may make an exception to this one considering the number of deaths and injuries. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 03:26, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Lean Support Death toll is high, we posted Uvalde which has the same death count but obviously that's different since that one was a school shooting. Yes it's the United States but 20+ deaths is rare even here. Jbvann05 03:34, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Rare? Surely there's already been one already this century! That's hardly rare. Nfitz (talk) 03:49, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

ITN isn't solely for once in a century events. The Nobel Prize wouldn't be blurbed, as its annual. Neither would US Presidential elections and the Olympics, as they are every four years. Bremps... 03:53, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

In a country of 330,000,000+, Yes, mass shootings like this are rare. -- Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 03:56, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Comment -- CNN pointed out something.... this is near the border between the US and Canada. This isn't just a national concern. -- Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 03:56, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  I'm not sure I understand your comment. How would Canada be impacted? Bremps... 04:08, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  It's almost 100 miles from Canada. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 04:54, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  It's near the border between the US and Canada. Actually, maybe I should stop listening to the talking heads, since they apparently think 100 miles is nearby. -- Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 04:55, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  It's less than a 3-hour drive, without breaking the speed limit. The shootings were about 6 hours ago. BD2412 T 04:58, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  It's pure speculation to consider this an international concern anyway. A shooting in Serbia doesn't become an international incident just because the shooter could get to a border in a few hours. JM2023 (talk) 05:05, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  I was going to say, if this somehow counts as near enough to the border with Canada then any event in Seattle is also a Canadian concern and any event in Phoenix is a Mexican concern. As a Canadian denizen I am not in the least concerned for Canada here. There could be a joke about those talking heads here about Americans and their poor sense of geography. JM2023 (talk) 05:01, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support. Not common mass shootings have over 20 deaths in the US.`~HelpingWorld~` ^(👽🛸) 03:59, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support - The number of dead and injured people is much higher than most mass shootings in this country. Already the top story on a few prominent news sites outside the typical US/UK/Canada/Australia groups (such as NHK, Bild, The Hindu, and Marca). SounderBruce 04:22, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
• Comment why not "In the United States, at least 22 people are killed and over 50 are injured in a mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine"? (why have the numbers been spelled out?)—indopug (talk) 05:05, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  Per MOS:NUMERAL, numbers above nine can be presented as either numbers or words. Curbon7 (talk) 05:49, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support due to the high death toll Unknown-Tree (talk) 05:13, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose, shooter is a White male with mental health issues. I would have supported this if it was a terrorist or hate crime incident. Unfortunately, shootings in the United States are run of the mill everyday news. | Pirate of the High Seas (talk) 06:09, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  This is a form of terrorism. That he is white is irrelevant. -- Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 06:30, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  Is it terrorism though? Mass murder is not synonymous with terrorism, terrorism has a political or ideological motivation or goal. JM2023 (talk) 10:13, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  Exactly. _-_Alsor (talk) 11:57, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose I just looked at the NYT and its headline for this is currently "At Least 7 Dead in Lewiston as Police Put City on Lockdown" and that was updated just 20 minutes ago. That seems a lot less than the blurb number of 22 and the article number of 15 and so there seems to be a lack of consistent, reliable information. We should wait on the outcome and investigations. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:46, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support - per Knowledgekid87 Maine does not see such high amounts of homicides. Merlin^sorca 06:48, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Wait, leaning support because the event does seem to be fairly extreme with regard to casualties. However, at the moment, there's too much uncertainty to make a properly informative blurb. CNN is reporting "at least 22". BBC is reporting 16, possibly 22. NYT is reporting "at least 7". I anticipate more info will come to light as the US moves into the daylight hours and official statements are made, at which point a more solid blurb can be formed with multiple agreeing sources.

La Ovo (talk) 07:19, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Wait. If the death toll is lower, this doesn't appear to pass the (quite correct) high bar we have for persistent US mass shootings. If it is in the 20s though, that's a different level of significance. Black Kite (talk) 07:23, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
• Wait but leaning to oppose another day, another shooting in the US. _-_Alsor (talk) 09:21, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support - ITN newsworthy due to the large number of civilian victims. STSC (talk) 10:23, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Support Leaning towards support more than oppose. The interest in this case is quite high, and it should get recognition. However, we should delay the posting due to killer not yet found. Until there is concrete information, it would be prudent not to post at this moment Buncha2345 (talk) 11:29, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support - unheard of shooting in Maine, a lot of interest in this case especially as the suspect is at large. As others have mentioned, local sources say there are 16 dead, not the 22 numbers CNN/BBC were reporting earlier. ~ Eejit43 (talk) 11:51, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  It is also of note that this is likely the deadliest mass shooting in Maine (per the Portland Press Herald), and seems to be the 12th deadliest in US history (according to navbox, the Gun Violence Archive puts it at around 8th). ~ Eejit43 (talk) 12:04, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose plenty of examples provided above where the perpetrator of mass casualty events, despite the notability and significance of the event, is ignored when they don't meet a particular narrative. As others have pointed out, mass shootings in the US are common, and I don't see the reason why we should post about this one compared to others that have occurred this year. Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:47, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support - I'm seeing sources back up the 22 casualty count. Plus, this doesn't happen often in Maine. The fact that the shooter is still at large and a manhunt is underway makes this more newsworthy IMHO ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 13:35, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
• Posted per consensus above, tweaking the blurb to account for the article's listed death toll + putting the country at the end per Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 106#In In the News, headlines often put cart before horse. I gave no weight to the "another day, another shooting in the US" !vote. Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 14:07, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

(Closed) Johnson elected Speaker of the House

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Articles: Speaker of the United States House of Representatives (talk · history · tag) and October 2023 Speaker of the United States House of Representatives election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Mike Johnson is elected Speaker of the United States House of Representatives (Post)
News source(s): Associated Press, BBC, NYT, Al Jazeera
Credits:

• Nominated by Purplebackpack89 (talk · give credit)

• Support as nom pbp 21:19, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose The removal was notable enough for a blurb since it was the first time ever, the election of a new speaker not so much. This is not the head of government in the US. Noah, AA^Talk 21:06, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per above. The article that should be assessed is October 2023 Speaker of the United States House of Representatives election, not the general speaker article. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:07, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose It took a long time for the speaker election, but not notable on the whole. Natg 19 (talk) 21:31, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose and close We all know that nomination was going to come up; we all know that there is not going to be a consensus. _-_Alsor (talk) 21:37, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support This is clearly significant and in the news. The nomination needs work through. The article should be October 2023 Speaker of the United States House of Representatives election and we need some news sources and an image. I shall update it accordingly. Andrew🐉(talk) 21:45, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose - internal politics. nableezy - 21:50, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

• The current four blurbs are all elections of some sort and all internal politics for particular countries too. The speaker election seems more significant than all of them because it has more impact on the global financial system and ongoing conflicts like Gaza and Ukraine. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:02, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

• The other elections are a result of public elections, while this was just, effectively, a body of about 220 ppl (the GOP) finally agreeing for one position that is not publicly elected. Masem (t) 22:15, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

• The details of the process are not important – different places have different methods such as coups and we still post them. What matters is that we have a result which is more significant than the failed referendum in Australia, for example. That happened over 10 days ago and so is quite stale now. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:39, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

• Meh, argue against having those elections then. This one though is internal politics of little actual importance. nableezy - 22:54, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

  At what point does Andrew’s “But I don’t like it” argumentative style cross the line between annoyance and disruption? The Kip 02:00, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

A constitutional amendment referendum of a major democracy, even a failed one, is more important than the appointment of a presiding officer of one chamber of a bicameral legislature in the middle of a congressional incarnation. While "Internal Politics" is not a reason to not blurb something and actually goes against two different guidelines (ITNR and the other one against opposing things for being non-international), internal house of representatives politics to elect a presiding officer who is nothing close to a head of state or government is not significant enough for ITN. JM2023 (talk) 03:19, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

How does the replacement of one GOP presiding officer with another GOP presiding officer have significant impact on the global financial system? This isn't a Fed chairman or a president. JM2023 (talk) 03:36, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

This Republican is so crazy he makes his predecessor look sane. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 05:55, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Very helpful, simply calling the new officer extremely crazy and giving 0 further explanation. that really helps me see that this could drastically alter the global financnial system. JM2023 (talk) 06:33, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose If this event were to take place in any other country, editors would have the common sense to resist the urge to nominate it for ITN, because it's just about politicians choosing someone for a particular role, and not the result of a public election, nor relating to the head of the executive branch. The fact this story happened in the US does not make it any more important. Chrisclear (talk) 22:34, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

• We posted Lizz Truss's resignation and replacement, and the prime minister's position is nothing but a bunch of politicians choosing someone for a particular role. -- Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 03:58, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Liz Truss was the head of the executive branch of government. The Speaker of the United States House of Representatives is not. I updated my previous comment to reflect this distinction. Chrisclear (talk) 04:23, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose - it's a bit too wonkish for me. Nfitz (talk) 23:25, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose and snow close at this point as well, parliamentary speakership isnt ITN worthy.✨  4 🧚‍♂am KING  23:38, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
  • Except that in spite of the similar title, this position is not analogous to positions such as Speaker of the House of Commons; even a brief overview of their selection, powers, & traditional role does indicate that the closest parallel in Westminster-style systems is in fact Prime Minister. The United States is fairly unusual for straying far from that system, so it lacks a single unitary leader. This is particularly noteworthy as the United States can thus have a "split government" (as it does now) where different houses are held by different parties. - Nottheking (talk) 23:57, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

    except that a Prime Minister is also chief executive in the executive branch, chairman of the Cabinet, appointer of the rest of the ministers and parliamentary secretaries (giving them way more control over the legislators through patronage), and strong leader of the always more powerful lower house or unicameral parliament.

    compared to an American speaker who only has power over the less powerful lower house through control of the whip and the agenda.

    a prime minister and an American speaker are even less parallel than an American speaker and a Westminster speaker. JM2023 (talk) 03:43, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose Much less newsworthy than the removal of the Speaker, which was posted. One story on this internal political maneuvering is enough. Pawnkingthree (talk) 23:44, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
• Weak Support on Principle, Oppose on Quality We released the Kevin McCarthy's ousting to ITN, so I feel like we should have some closure on the circumstance. However, the article's in rough shape for ITN though. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 23:46, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
• Weak Oppose on Principle, Oppose on Quality The removal of a Speaker (de facto a fractional Head of Government for the weird, very un-Westminster style of government the United States uses) was indeed very unusual, noteworthy, and newsworthy. However, the selection of a new speaker, while briefly news, is much less unusual. We can compare this to elections: in nominal circumstance, a new government forming in any country isn't noteworthy, as instead the event that is newsworthy is the preceding election that elected said legislature. (that then formed a government)

The only real exception to this is when the outcome of government formation isn't considered "obvious" to the media & other sources. (e.g, a very fragmented election that requires an unpredictable coalition be formed) However in this case, the Republicans had a majority, and it was probably inevitable that they'd pick a Speaker that they could agree upon. I could have seen it being ITN-worthy had this been a particularly bizarre outcome, (such as accidentally electing Hakeem Jeffries) but "The Republican majority successfully picks one of their own as a new leader" is much more ho-hum than that. - Nottheking (talk) 00:04, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose per all above. As someone who opposed the McCarthy blurb, at least that could be justified by being the first time it’d happened in a very long time; this, however, is your average internal political event. The Kip 01:58, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
• Leaning support. Ascension of the head of a coequal branch of one of the largest governments in the world. While the presidency gets more attention, this is on par with a new president taking office in the middle of the term. BD2412 T 02:48, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Not a general election, not a head of state, not a head of government, not even the head of a unicameral legislature. And we already did the removal. Not significant enough at all . JM2023 (talk) 03:12, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Good-faith nom. I feel we are opening a Pandora's box of non-heads of state being blurbed. This really only pertains to one party of one chamber getting their act together.

• This doesn't impact to my oppose, but would most Wikipedians support a Removal of Mike Johnson blurb à la Removal of Kevin McCarthy if this sort of thing happens again? I think ITN is just generally unprepared for the norm-shattering stuff of the US politics of the 2020s. Bremps... 03:40, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  If it becomes a regular event then no one cares anymore. Presumably it was blurbed because it had never happened in America before. JM2023 (talk) 03:45, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose We already blurbed the removal, since it was unique. This event is not particularly significant. Black Kite (talk) 07:20, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose As covered above, this is not a head of state position and is not usually blurbed. The most notable part of the process was the time taken rather than Johnson's election anyway - but either way, Speaker of the House is not a role we would consider nominating, nor similar positions in other countries. La Ovo (talk) 07:31, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Hurricane Otis

Article: Hurricane Otis (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Hurricane Otis (satellite image pictured) makes landfall at Category 5 intensity near Acapulco, Mexico (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Hurricane Otis (satellite image pictured) landfalls near Acapulco, Mexico becoming the first known Category 5 East Pacific landfall.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Hurricane Otis (satellite image pictured) makes landfall as a Category 5 hurricane near Acapulco, Mexico, the first recorded landfall at that intensity in the Eastern Pacific, killing at least 27.
News source(s): New York Times, The Washington PostBBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Cyclonebiskit (talk · give credit)
• Created by MarioProtIV (talk · give credit)
• Updated by MarioProtIV (talk · give credit), Supportstorm (talk · give credit) and Jasper Deng (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: A completely unexpected "nightmare scenario" as this storm went from possibly making landfall as a minor hurricane to becoming the first Category 5 on record (1949 to present) to strike the Pacific coast of Mexico. Its core struck Acapulco directly in the middle of the night. Reports of damage are starting to trickle out, but a Category 5 striking a major metropolitan area is not a common occurrence. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 14:44, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Wait until the damage is reported to see how significant it is. JM2023 (talk) 15:16, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Wait – Same reasoning as above. This probably deserves it, but I'd like a little more info on the effects from reliable sources first. Penitentes (talk) 15:59, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

For a few hours yet, communications are still cut in the area (electricity out, cell service out, etc), which happens regularly with the worst disasters. Acapulco is fairly well connected, however, so news will probably start coming in later on Wednesday. This time we are not looking at a days-long Lac-Mégantic silence (which led many ITN editors at the time to think nothing significant had happened). Incidentally, the next two ISS orbits will take it almost directly over the area, starting in about an hour. - Tenebris 66.11.165.110 (talk) 16:26, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

• Wait per above. The Kip 16:31, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

• Wait Not going to oppose since this almost certainly will warrant posting, but we need to know a lot more on the impact.

Noah, AA^Talk 17:46, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

• The time for waiting is over. Support alt blurb two which effectively combines the record landfall intensity and impact. Noah, AA^Talk 14:18, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Wait for the initial reports, although I would certainly support this blurb as this is truly unprecedented for this part of Mexico (although we already saw this intensification rate with Hurricane Patricia 8 years ago, that hurricane did not hit a major metropolitan area). It will take days/weeks to know the full scale of the damage, but once the preliminary situation reports get released, I think it would be right to post this event to ITN. Vida0007 (talk) 00:49, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Post-posting support Formally changing my vote to support as more details became known (especially with regards to the death toll). Also, I think the blurb should be updated to include the [preliminary] damage total once it becomes known. Vida0007 (talk) 22:54, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support We probably cannot expect a lot of details for a while (maybe for weeks), but the initial reports we got over the past 12-24 hours should be enough for ITN. Renerpho (talk) 08:23, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  I'd prefer the first alt blurb. Renerpho (talk) 15:59, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support due to the large number of fatalities, usually around 20 is the cutoff for ITN. --72.68.134.26 (talk) 16:46, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
• Posted a version of an altblurb, though I might suggest this alternative if there is support for it: "Hurricane Otis becomes the first known Category 5 storm to make landfall in the East Pacific, killing at least 27 people." Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 17:58, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  The most interesting feature of this storm seems to be its rapid intensification, increasing its wind speed by over 100 mph in a day and breaking the 12-hour record. See Hurricane Otis: The mystery of why storms suddenly intensify. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:20, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

October 24

Portal:Current events/2023 October 24

October 24, 2023 (2023-10-24) (Tuesday) Armed conflicts and attacks Gaza–Israel conflict 2023 Israel–Hamas war Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip The World Health Organization says that medicine and health supplies have not been delivered to three hospitals in northern Gaza and that nearly two-thirds of hospitals in Gaza are now inoperable. (Al Jazeera) (Reuters) The UN agency for Palestinian refugees says that the number of aid trucks so far is "a trickle in the face of the immense needs of people" and calls for an "unimpeded and continuous flow of humanitarian assistance and medical assistance to continue coming into Gaza". (Reuters) War crimes in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war Israel launches airstrikes near the Red Crescent headquarters and Al-Amal Hospital in Khan Younis, where more than 4,000 displaced Palestinians are taking shelter. (Al Jazeera) UN Secretary-General António Guterres calls for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza, saying that there are clear violations of international humanitarian law. Guterres also called for more humanitarian relief to be allowed into the enclave. (Al Jazeera) Human Rights Watch criticizes Israel for "deliberately deepening the suffering of civilians in Gaza" by refusing to allow shipments of fuel into the enclave and for not restoring the supply of water. (The Business Standard) Israeli police close the Al-Aqsa Mosque in East Jerusalem and stop Muslim worshippers from entering the compound. (Middle East Monitor) Iraqi conflict Two rockets land inside Al-Asad Airbase in Al Anbar Governorate, Iraq, which houses American troops, no casualties are reported. (Reuters) U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken warns Iran of a "decisive response" if Americans are attacked by its proxies in the region. (Bloomberg) Disasters and accidents 2023 Heligoland ship collision One person is killed and four others are missing after two cargo ships, the British-flagged Verity and the Bahamas-flagged Polesie, collide in the North Sea near Heligoland, Schleswig-Holstein, Germany, with the Verity sinking. Rescue efforts are ongoing. (AFP via France 24) Law and crime Aftermath of the January 6 United States Capitol attack Criminal proceedings in the January 6 United States Capitol attack Former Trump administration chief of staff Mark Meadows is granted immunity by prosecutor Jack Smith in exchange for testifying to a grand jury earlier this year. (ABC News) The Holy See announces Bishop Grzegorz Kaszak's resignation from the Diocese of Sosnowiec in Poland following allegations related to a priest's misconduct in Dąbrowa Górnicza. (AFP via The Manila Times) Christchurch mosque shootings The deputy chief coroner of New Zealand opens an inquest into the shootings in order to investigate police response times. (AFP via The Manila Times) Authorities in Touboro, North Region, Cameroon report that a number of travellers from Ngaoundéré have been kidnapped yesterday by unidentified gunmen near the border with Chad, bringing the number to at least 50 people for the past two days. Seven of them have been released. (AP via Voice of America) Politics and elections October 2023 Speaker of the United States House of Representatives election The Republican party selects Tom Emmer as their nominee for Speaker of the United States House of Representatives. However, Emmer withdraws four hours later. The same party conference again gathers and selects Mike Johnson as their nominee for Speaker. (CNN) The Standing Committee of the National People's Congress of China votes to remove several state council members from their positions, including defense minister Li Shangfu, finance minister Liu Kun, and science minister Wang Zhigang. (Reuters via CNA) Sports 2023 MLB postseason 2023 National League Championship Series The Arizona Diamondbacks defeat the Philadelphia Phillies, 4–2 in game 7, to win the National League pennant. (The Athletic)

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RD: Ricardo Iorio

Article: Ricardo Iorio (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): La Nación, Clarín, Infobae
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Cambalachero (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: The most important heavy metal artist from Argentina, and perhaps South America. A career from the early 1980s to this day, and leader of 3 different big bands. Cambalachero (talk) 19:43, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

• support dont know much about them, but the article seems pretty well sourced. Lukt64 (talk) 20:58, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
• Discography needs REFs, please. --PFHLai (talk) 11:25, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
  • What is there to reference? It's just a list of works, with no statements. Motörhead#Discography, Black Sabbath#Discography (good article), Metallica#Discography (featured article), Megadeth#Discography (featured article), etc, do not have references either. Cambalachero (talk) 12:58, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

    i think there is a general trend at least recently of people getting nominated and then editors pointing out unsourced filmographies/discographies followed by other editors pointing out that most filmographies/discographies are not sourced and then other editors trying to cite the whole filmographies. Seems to be an ongoing issue. JM2023 (talk) 13:03, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

    "Recently"? If you read the guidelines at WP:ITN, you'll see WP:ITNQUALITY which says Lists of awards and honors, bibliographies and filmographies and the like should have clear sources. That has been there since 26 March 2018, pursuant to this talk page discussion, and the previous proposal that was before the rewriting implies that this has been the standard for years. So recently is inaccurate; this has been standard practice on ITN/C for a long time. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 17:42, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

    I wasn't talking about any guidelines, I was talking about discussions like this one. Not my fault that people dont follow them. Although having only found that one example I think I misremembered there being more than 1 recent example. Gets confusing when so many blue links are dying all the time. JM2023 (talk) 17:53, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

    It seems I initially misread your comments, my apologies. I do agree with your sentiment though, this is a rather persistent issue that happens on ITN, that many editors come and argue about whether discographies, bibliographies and the like need sources. I don't think it's a general trend recently though, more of an perennial issue that occasionally pops up. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 17:56, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

    • It wouldn't make much sense for ITN to have standards higher than those of featured articles. Cambalachero (talk) 13:29, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

      All of the articles you mentioned have separate articles for the discography, this article doesn't. The standard isn't higher, it's just that the referencing for those discographies is in the side article instead. Since this article doesn't have a separate article for the discography, it needs to be referenced. And we do need a refs for a discography. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 17:37, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

  •  Done Cambalachero (talk) 14:44, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

RD: Richard Roundtree

Article: Richard Roundtree (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deadline Hollywood
Credits:

• Nominated by Masem (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Nohomersryan (talk · give credit), MatthewHoobin (talk · give credit), Oltrepier (talk · give credit) and Tails Wx (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Actor best known for playing Shaft. Article is miles away from being postable with lack of sourcing throughout. Masem (t) 02:07, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Who is the man that will fix this article? Kirill C1 (talk) 16:02, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Shaft! 2601:199:4180:B980:1CF5:B0C6:565B:6D55 (talk) 01:33, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

You're damn right 2601:199:4180:B980:AD9D:6196:1455:A138 (talk) 03:29, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

The Film section of his filmography is now entirely sourced, while the Television section is still lacking some citations (he had quite a career)! I welcome anyone interested to take a crack at looking over the prose—I've only really been focusing on the filmography tables. —Matthew  / (talk) 07:33, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

@MatthewHoobin: I've just given it a shot, and it should be slightly better now. I would make a few notes, though: firstly, some statements throughout the prose likely need citations, as well; secondly, we should find better sources that NNDB and IMDb, since they're usually avoided due to their user-generated content. Still, the article looks almost ready to go for me! Oltrepier (talk) 15:52, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

MatthewHoobin and Oltrepier: I've sourced the "Career" section and just starting to hit the "Television" section with more references. And I agree–he had quite a career! A bit more to go; thanks to both of you for your help! And as Oltrepier noted above, the NNDB and IMDb sources should be replaced with reliable sources since they're user-generated. Tails Wx 21:29, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

With relation to filmography, Imdb is not user based. Kirill C1 (talk) 22:06, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Filmography entries on IMDb have to be reviewed by IMDb staff, but they're still user-submitted, and the consensus is that they're not reliable (see WP:IMDB). It looks like the only time IMDb is used as a source on Roundtree's article at the moment is for the list of his awards, and that should be replaced by reliable sources. —Matthew  / (talk) 01:01, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

@MatthewHoobin: I've added reliable sources to the awards section, which should cover all the nominated and won awards except for one, which I couldn't find references for. Tails Wx 02:21, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

I've mostly finished the television section, there's a few shows that still needs references, but overall it looks in good shape, and the sourcing is sufficient for ITN posting. Support. Tails Wx 01:53, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Support after the improvements we made. Oltrepier (talk) 07:32, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

(Closed) Cyclone Tej

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Cyclone Tej (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Cyclone Tej makes landfall in Yemen near the Oman–Yemen border (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Cyclone Tej leaves at least 2 Dead, 150 Injured, and 10,000 Displaced in Yemen
News source(s): Nasa, [5], [6], [7], [8]
Credits:

• Created and nominated by Abo Yemen (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Susmuffin (talk · give credit) and Mobius Gerig (talk · give credit)

 Abo Yemen✉ 12:31, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

support i dont ever see hurricanes in this area, and considering that its right next to yemen and somalia, 2 of the most wartorn countries on earth, this could cause thousands of deaths Lukt64 (talk) 12:42, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Cyclones hitting the Arabian Peninsula is hardly rare. DarkSide830 (talk) 14:56, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose due to quality - multiple empty, orange-tagged sections in the article ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 13:01, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

  can you review the article again? I've filled the empty sections Abo Yemen✉ 13:48, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

  • Wait until impact becomes more clear - fair enough on the quality point ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 17:56, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

  Comment: Even if the sections are filled, the cyclone's total damage and deaths are still not clear. Sorry, but for now, this is still not ITN worthy. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 17:28, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

  The cyclone has displaced 1800 families according to the Yemeni Red Crescent [9] Abo Yemen✉ 17:48, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose per article quality concerns noted above. Wait until further impacts occur, I'd like to see more significant impacts before posting. Tails Wx 13:04, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

  I've filled the empty sections; Can you change it to wait instead of oppose + wait Abo Yemen✉ 13:49, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

• Wait, Leaning Oppose. (edit conflict) x2 The article is nowhere near ready to be posted as there are many empty sections and tags. Also, Wait until the deaths and damage is clear. Also, until the cyclone's aftermath becomes clear, I suggest changing the blurb.

Update: While the article has been expanded, there are still many problems with the article. A tag has been placed that the article is missing information after the storm was named. Also, the cyclone appears to have dissipated as it's no longer tracked by the IMD and JTWC. I'd still support Wait until the full damage from the cyclone becomes clear. If the damage and deaths were minimal, I'd oppose, as that would not be notable enough to be posted. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 13:17, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose as of now as impacts do not appear pursuant to that that we would expect for a tropical cyclone posted to ITN. DarkSide830 (talk) 14:54, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose Not seeing a reason to post this at this time. Landfall is not sufficient for an ITN posting.

Noah, AA^Talk 14:57, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

• Wait, lean oppose - The cyclone's effects aren't entirely known, but thus far from what is known I'm not seeing enough to justify blurbing. The Kip 18:52, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
  • Oppose - it’s been roughly three days since landfall and human impact seems minimal, besides the flooding/displacement typical of any hurricane. Not blurb-worthy. The Kip 19:54, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
• Wait before effects of the cyclone are determined. Kanyewestlover999 (talk) 20:12, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

• Wait until we get damage and casualty reports Elisecars727 (talk) 21:32, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose barring any serious death toll. Flooding is a natural result of any of these types of storm systems, but the effects seem rather limited even in this case. --Masem (t) 00:18, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

• WP:MINIMUMDEATHS Abo Yemen✉

• Oppose for now Until it is clear the impact of the storm and the (notorious) number of deaths it may cause. _-_Alsor (talk) 06:16, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

  2 Dead, 150 Injured, and 10,000 Displaced, source Abo Yemen✉ 13:12, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

  Not enough for an ITN posting as everyone here has stated. While WP:MINIMUMDEATHS doesn't exist, we don't post WP:RUNOFTHEMILL tropical cyclones. Single digit death toll events are almost never posted on ITN unless it's the assassination of an important figure or something of that nature. Noah, AA^Talk 17:45, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

  Totally agree with Noah. This is the consensus that we have been taking here for some time. _-_Alsor (talk) 18:16, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

• Comment that infobox needs updating. It is still stuck on 24+ hours ago, before landfall. 50.101.173.184 (talk) 08:48, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

  the infobox is always updated Abo Yemen✉ 12:50, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

  With all due respect, be careful to not approach the point of WP:BLUDGEONing. You've responded to six different votes thus far. The Kip 16:16, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

  Oh I'm sorry I'll stop now Abo Yemen✉ 18:49, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose per above. Landfall is not significant, effects are not yet fully known. Also the alt blurb has four grammatical errors. JM2023 (talk) 15:18, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Three minor capitalization errors (on a par with German nouns), readily fixable.

I agree that the Arabian Peninsula is becoming a downright common place for cyclones. However, they are extremely rare as far south as Yemen, although Yemen also happens to be particularly vulnerable due to continued (proxied) civil war. The terrain is conducive to landslides; but the current difficulty is mostly (desert-style) heavy rain and flooding. Different scale, but at landfall wind speeds made it somewhere between a category 1 and 2. Cyclone Chapala was stronger at landfall, and had a somewhat similar track at landfall, thankfully also avoiding major cities. - Tenebris 66.11.165.110 (talk) 16:15, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

i am almost certain you meant to reply this paragraph to Lukt64 at the top and not me. JM2023 (talk) 18:37, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

October 23

Portal:Current events/2023 October 23

October 23, 2023 (2023-10-23) (Monday) Armed conflicts and attacks Gaza–Israel conflict 2023 Israel–Hamas war 2023 Israel-Lebanon border clashes More than 20,000 people are internally displaced in Lebanon amid cross-border strikes by Israeli forces, according to the United Nations migration agency. (Reuters) Israeli air raids target several locations in Lebanon including Ramesh, Markaba, Houla, Shebaa, and Kafr Shuba. (Al Jazeera) Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip The Indonesian Hospital, the largest in northern Gaza, loses power after running out of fuel. (CNN) Kidnappings during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war Hamas releases two Israeli hostages following mediation by Qatar and Egypt. The pair were taken to the Rafah border crossing between Gaza and Egypt. (AFP via The Philippine Star) War crimes in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war The Gaza Health Ministry says that Israeli airstrikes kill at least 436 Palestinians, including women and children, in northern Gaza’s Al-Shati refugee camp as well as Khan Younis. (Al Jazeera) Omar Daraghmeh, a senior Hamas official, dies while in an Israeli prison, with Hamas spokespeople claim it to have been an assassination. He was arrested in the West Bank by the Israel Defense Forces, along with his son. (Reuters) (BNN) Israeli forces launch night raids in the West Bank, with heavily armed troops backed by armored vehicles seen in at least two areas. (Al Jazeera) Qatar's Emir Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani has warned the escalation of fighting in Gaza poses a threat to the region and the world. He asserted Israel should not be given a "green light for unconditional killing". (Al Jazeera) Mexican drug war At least 24 people, including twelve police officers, are killed in three separate mass shootings and ambushes by unidentified assailants in Coyuca de Benítez, Guerrero, and Tacámbaro, Michoacán, Mexico. (AFP via France 24) Disasters and accidents 2023–24 European windstorm season Storm Babet The death toll from the extratropical cyclone in the United Kingdom rises to seven as another body is found in floodwaters in Chesterfield, Derbyshire, England. (The Independent) A cargo train collides with a passenger train in Bhairab, Bangladesh, killing at least 17 people and injuring many others. (Reuters) Seven people are killed and 25 others are injured in a multiple-vehicle collision on Interstate 55 near New Orleans, Louisiana, United States. Police say the 158-car pile-up was caused by a dense fog. (BBC News) International relations Enlargement of NATO Sweden–NATO relations Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan submits a bill on granting Sweden membership into NATO to the Grand National Assembly. (Al Jazeera) Law and crime Aftermath of the 2023 Pakistani protests The Supreme Court of Pakistan declares the court-martials of civilians unconstitutional, moving the trials of over 100 pro-Imran Khan protesters to civilian criminal courts. (Reuters) A Russian district court extends RFE journalist Alsu Kurmasheva's detention as a preventive measure after Kurmasheva allegedly failed to register as a foreign agent. (AFP via RFI) Authorities in Touboro, North Region, Cameroon confirm that over 30 people, likely including students from Chad, were abducted by suspected bandits yesterday. (Reuters via Japan Today) Five people are killed in a mass shooting in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, Canada. (CBC News) Science and technology 2023 in arthropod paleontology A new species of prehistoric millipede named Lauravolsella willemeni is discovered in the Netherlands. (NOS) Sports 2023 MLB postseason 2023 American League Championship Series The Texas Rangers defeat the Houston Astros, 11–4 in game 7, to win the American League pennant. (The Washington Post)

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RD: István Láng

Article: István Láng (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Violin Channel
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)
• Created by Jerome Kohl (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Hungarian composer of international influence. The article was good to start with, begun by Jerome Kohl our expert in 20th-century music as long as he lived. A short recordings section could easily be added using Musiekweb, but I'm on vacation, and the next two RD articles are waiting.. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:55, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support Article is in good shape and looks ready for posting in its current state. Good work! Tails Wx 02:00, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

RD: Bill Kenwright

Article: Bill Kenwright (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

• Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Jkaharper (talk · give credit), Diademchild (talk · give credit) and NorthernFalcon (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Everton chairman Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 05:58, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. Many sections in the article needs citations. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 13:41, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

RD: Bishan Singh Bedi

Article: Bishan Singh Bedi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hindu
Credits:

• Nominated by Fahads1982 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Fahads1982 (talk) 11:38, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Article needs some ref improvement currently. - Indefensible (talk) 18:08, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support Good article about an important cricket player. Srf123 (talk) 08:05, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

(Closed) Ongoing: Unitary Platform presidential primaries

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: 2023 Unitary Platform presidential primaries (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, Financial Times, El País
Credits:

• Nominated by NoonIcarus (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Primary elections of the Venezuelan opposition. First presidential primaries in eleven years, important international coverage. --NoonIcarus (talk) 19:03, 23 October 2023 (UTC) NoonIcarus (talk) 19:03, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. We don't have a habit of covering similar primaries, and I don't believe it to be globally shaking enough to make an exception just yet - especially with how lopsided the results seem to be. River10000 (talk) 19:10, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Probably belongs in ITN. It is just not important enough for Ongoing. Lukt64 (talk) 19:11, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Not even there. We don't post primary elections. -- Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 20:05, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

I'm well aware it would be uncommon, but it's one of the reasons why I highlighted the relevancy of these ones and how important they are for Venezuela. I understand if there's still opposition, though. --NoonIcarus (talk) 20:29, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. Venezuela's elections are rigged and Machado is barred from holding public office anyway. DarkSide830 (talk) 19:23, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose There's not even a blurb, how is one suppose to post this on ITN? Editor 5426387 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 20:30, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose The nomination is for an "Ongoing" entry, not a blurb, but I'm not sure whether it is even ongoing. It seems like the voting has already ended and all that remains is to count the votes and declare a winner. However, I don't think we usually blurb presidential primary results. For example, even the ITN nomination for Trump's victory in the 2016 Republican primary was rejected. Unless there's something really noteworthy about this specific primary election I don't think it should be posted. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 20:41, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per above IP user’s rationale. Primaries in any country simply typically don’t rise to the level of ITN’s standards to post. The Kip 01:09, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
• Seems like a good faith nom but can probably be WP:SNOW closed soon. - Indefensible (talk) 03:18, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

October 22

Portal:Current events/2023 October 22

October 22, 2023 (2023-10-22) (Sunday) Armed conflicts and attacks Gaza–Israel conflict 2023 Israel–Hamas war Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip The United Nations says the lives of at least 120 newborn babies in incubators in Gaza hospitals are at risk, as fuel runs out in the enclave. (Al Jazeera) Journalists killed in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war Palestinian journalist Rushdi Sarraj is killed in an Israeli attack on his home. (The Peninsula) 2023 Israel-Lebanon border clashes Five Hezbollah members are killed during a shootout with Israeli soldiers at the border with Lebanon, bringing the number of Hezbollah members killed during the conflict to 24. (AP) At least 55 Palestinians are killed in overnight Israeli raids on the Gaza Strip, according to the Hamas-controlled Gaza Ministry of Health. (Al Jazeera) The number of mosques destroyed by Israeli airstrikes in the Gaza Strip increases to 31. (AA) An Israeli tank accidentally hits an Egyptian position near the border with Gaza. Several Egyptian border guards sustain injuries from shell fragments. (Reuters) Paddy Cosgrave, a co-founder of the European tech conference Web Summit, resigns after opposition to his public statements on Israel, which included, "War crimes are war crimes even when committed by allies, and should be called out for what they are." (The Telegraph) Syrian civil war Israel launches airstrikes against Damascus International Airport, killing two workers. (Reuters) Disasters and accidents At least 28 people are killed after a boat capsizes on the Congo River in Équateur Province, Democratic Republic of the Congo. (Africa News) International relations 2023 Israel–Hamas war protests Several thousand people gather in Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina, waving Palestinian and Bosnian flags and demanding an end to Israel's bombardment of Gaza. (Reuters) Territorial disputes in the South China Sea The Philippines reports separate collision incidents between its military ships and vessels of both the China Coast Guard and the Maritime Militia near the Second Thomas Shoal in the Spratly Islands. (AFP via NDTV) Law and crime Alaska Airlines Flight 2059 An off-duty pilot reportedly attempts to hijack and crash an Alaska Airlines passenger plane travelling from Everett, Washington, to San Francisco, California, United States. (BBC News) 2023 Israel–Hamas war protests During a pro-Palestine protest in Minneapolis, Minnesota, U.S., a white car drives through a group of protesters. No one is injured. (Newsweek) Politics and elections Elections in Venezuela 2023 Unitary Platform presidential primaries Venezuelan opposition parties hold their first presidential primary since 2012. (AP) 2023 Argentine general election Argentines elect the president and the members of the legislature. Sergio Massa and Javier Milei receives ~36% and ~30% of the votes respectively and will face off in a second round. (Reuters) (CNN) 2023 Swiss federal election Voters in Switzerland elect the members of the Federal Assembly. Results show that the right-wing Swiss People's Party becomes the largest parliamentary faction after the election, gaining nine seats compared to the previous election. (AP) 2024 Indonesian presidential election Defense minister and Gerindra presidential candidate Prabowo Subianto chooses Surakarta mayor Gibran Rakabuming Raka, the eldest child of incumbent president Joko Widodo, as his running mate. (AFP via The Guardian)

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(Posted) RD: Charles E. Young

Article: Charles E. Young (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-10-22/charles-young-obit
Credits:

• Nominated by Natg 19 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Bagumba (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Long-time chancellor at UCLA. Natg 19 (talk) 21:07, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support Article looks good. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 21:10, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support. Article is in good shape. Seems ready to be posted. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 04:09, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
• Comment Marked "Ready". Charles E. Young § Political stances is marked for too many quotes, but that's a yellow tag, not the orange or red showstoppers mentioned at WP:ITN. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bagumba (talk • contribs) 12:01, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support Meets criteria. Ollieisanerd (talk • contribs) 18:57, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 11:04, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

RD: Vincent Asaro

Article: Vincent Asaro (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Daily News
Credits:

• Nominated by Tails Wx (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Jkaharper (talk · give credit) and Strattonsmith (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American mobster. Article looks in decent shape. Tails Wx 02:28, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support Article is in good shape. There's just one citation need tag that needs to be sorted out though. I would like to see that fixed before it's posted. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 04:06, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

(Closed) RD: Samantha Woll

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Samantha Woll (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Times
Credits:

• Nominated by SchroCat (talk · give credit)
• Created by Dsp13 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: President of the Isaac Agree Downtown Synagogue in Detroit, who was murdered on 21 October. - SchroCat (talk) 12:34, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

I have initial concerns with this and BLP1E - while her life is being documented in wake of her tragic death, lack of sourcing before her death is a problem. Masem (t) 12:41, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I am also unconvinced that she was notable before her death; I suspect that if an article had been constructed prior to that, it would probably have been redirected to the synagogue article should it have gone to AfD. Black Kite (talk) 13:12, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Betsy Rawls

Article: Betsy Rawls (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ESPN & ABC
Credits:

• Nominated by SchroCat (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Jkaharper (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: A four-time winner of the US Women's Open SchroCat (talk) 12:40, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

2023 Swiss federal election

Article: 2023 Swiss federal election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Swiss People's Party, led by Marco Chiesa, expands its plurality in the Swiss National Council. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Swiss People's Party, which campaigned on opposing immigration, expands its plurality in the Swiss National Council.
News source(s): Bloomberg, Reuters, Associated Press, Financial Times
Credits:

• Nominated by 1990'sguy (talk · give credit)

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: The 2023 Swiss federal election received much media coverage because of its results. 1990'sguy (talk) 13:24, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support, though should also contain a piece of info about the grand coalition cabinet that the Swiss are basically permanently stuck in. The blurb can be seen as a bit deceiving.

River10000 (talk) 15:21, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Just as a note, the election for Switzerland's Federal Council will occur on December 13. --1990'sguy (talk) 19:43, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support; major news coverage and national elections are ITNR This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 16:33, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
• Comment: Please see Talk:2023_Swiss_federal_election#Originally published percentages have been corrected. The article probably should be brought up to date before it goes ITN (but I'm incapable of correcting the numbers at this moment). Thanks! ---Sluzzelin talk 13:04, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing this out. I just updated the percentages. --1990'sguy (talk) 13:28, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose ITNR, maybe a bit light on prose, but should have more citations. some paragraphs have nothing cited. JM2023 (talk) 15:22, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

October 21

Portal:Current events/2023 October 21

October 21, 2023 (2023-10-21) (Saturday) Armed conflicts and attacks Israeli–Palestinian conflict 2023 Israel–Hamas war The Rafah Border Crossing on the Egypt–Gaza border opens for the first time since the war began, allowing humanitarian aid trucks to enter Gaza. (AFP via NDTV) Myanmar civil war The Tatmadaw conducts airstrikes and deploys additional troops in response to the Kachin Independence Army's attacks near the China–Myanmar border in Mu Se District and Laiza, Kachin State. (AFP via TOI) Russian invasion of Ukraine Russian strikes against Ukrainian infrastructure A Russian missile strike on a postal office in Kharkiv kills 6 workers and injures 16 others. (BBC) Somali Civil War Six people are killed and nine others injured during an Al-Shabaab suicide car bombing outside a military facility in Lower Shabelle, Somalia. (AP) Disasters and accidents 2023 Pacific hurricane season Hurricane Norma makes landfall near Cabo San Lucas, Baja California Sur, Mexico. Warnings have been issued for the states of Baja California Sur and Sinaloa. (AP) Law and crime Police in Cyprus arrest four Syrians for detonating a small explosive device near the Israeli embassy in Nicosia. (AP via ABC News) Politics and elections Former Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif returns to Pakistan after four years in self-imposed exile in London, United Kingdom. (AP)

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(Posted) RD: Bobi

Article: Bobi (dog) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News
Credits:

• Nominated by Joseywales1961 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Confirmed as longest recorded living dog, article is short but not a stub and reasonably well sourced Josey Wales ^Parley 12:37, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Weak support - yes, article is short but I think its just long enough and has just enough citations. Not much more can be expected for this article ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 14:46, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Support Article is sufficient. There is one outstanding cn tag though, and I would like to see that fixed before it hits the main page. Bremps... 00:40, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Fixed! Mooonswimmer 16:55, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support Article is long enough and does not have any sourcing issues. Mooonswimmer 16:56, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 11:01, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

(Closed) RD/Blurb: Bobby Charlton

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Bobby Charlton (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  English footballer Bobby Charlton dies at the age of 86. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, NYT, Al Jazeera, DW, France 24, CNN, BBC, CBS
Credits:

• Nominated by Pawnkingthree (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: A lot of work needed on sourcing. Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:30, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

• Blurb As the article says, "Widely considered one of the greatest players of all time" and so seems comparable with Jim Brown who was blurbed earlier this year. Andrew🐉(talk) 16:32, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  Bad comparison. Brown was more than an athlete. See Jim Brown#Acting career and Jim Brown#Civil rights work. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:36, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  Bobby Charlton was way bigger than Jim Brown.

  Just look at number of wiki pages.

  Brown, 38, and Charlton has 67 as of now. Kirill C1 (talk) 17:45, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  "Number of wiki pages"? – Muboshgu (talk) 18:14, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  Maybe he was referring to articles in other Wikipedia languages. I've always thought the 2023 FIBA Basketball World Cup was a bigger event than the 2023 Cricket World Cup; it's written in more Wikipedia languages (36 for basketball vs 30 for cricket). I guess Brown was bigger than these two events? Howard the Duck (talk) 18:23, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  Maybe he was. If so, it's irrelevant what other languages he has a page on as we're here on the English Wikipedia. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:27, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  There are always arguments about worldwide fame. Number of articles in different languages indicates how much a person is known in the world. Kirill C1 (talk) 18:41, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  Yes, that is what I referred to. Kirill C1 (talk) 18:42, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  That's a good point. You can use langviews to show the readership across all languages and this is a good way of assessing global impact and interest. Comparing the all-time, all-language views, we have

  Bobby Charlton = 10,777,838

  Jim Brown = 10,224,328

  As I said, they are quite comparable. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:56, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

  Nice. I tried comparing the 4 world cups this year:

  • 2023 FIBA Basketball World Cup (5.6 million)
  • 2023 Rugby World Cup (6.8 million)
  • 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup (12.4 million)
  • 2023 Cricket World Cup (13.3 million, of which 12.9 million is from en.wiki)

  Howard the Duck (talk) 08:28, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

  I think most views for Jim Brown come from English wiki. Kirill C1 (talk) 18:05, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

  Then it would make sense to blurb Jim Brown as we did, as this is the English wiki. _{Duly signed,} ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:47, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose blurb Unnecessary, RD is fine. Not ready for posting yet. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:37, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb As in pop music and acting, the field of leading personalities in association football is so vast that only the very best should be blurbed. Johan Cruyff was not blurbed in March 2016, which I find outrageous as he was one of few people to change the way football is both played and managed. Charlton is well known and recognised within football - ten stories right now on the front page of Marca and the lead on L'Equipe while games are being played in France - but was not a global icon like Pelé or Maradona. Unknown Temptation (talk) 17:52, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  Two wrongs do not do right.

  He was a global icon. Kirill C1 (talk) 17:53, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  Maybe global icon was not the right term to use, but there's a bracket where there's Pelé, Maradona, Messi and Ronaldo and very few others. Not fact, just my opinion. Unknown Temptation (talk) 17:59, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  I see nothing on that page to suggest he was a "global icon". One of the best players of all time? Sure. But there's too many of those to blurb. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:16, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Support blurb. One of the greatest players of all time. The only winning captain of England, winner of European Cup, record holder for Manchester United. Obvious blurb. Kirill C1 (talk) 17:48, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Not to take away from someone who achieved a lot more than I ever will, but Charlton didn't captain England in 1966, that was Bobby Moore. Charlton also lived to see his records broken for England appearances (by Moore in his own career) and goals (by Wayne Rooney and then Harry Kane), and Manchester United appearances (Giggs) and goals (Rooney). Unknown Temptation (talk) 17:54, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

See Guardian obit for impact. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/21/sir-bobby-charlton-obituary Kirill C1 (talk) 17:55, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

One Guardian obit does not establish blurb-worthiness. It would need a lot more coverage. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:15, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose Blurb. Very clearly one of the best soccer players ever. The key word is "one" of. Have we blurbed a soccer player that is father down the "best" list yet? DarkSide830 (talk) 17:56, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  Not from soccer, but we blurbed Shane Warne with 30 wiki pages. Charlton has almost seventy. Kirill C1 (talk) 18:39, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  By that logic, if Corbin Bleu were to pass away, he would be a clear choice for a blurb, given that he has articles in 213 different language Wikipedias. See Wikidata. BangJan1999 18:49, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  That is actually fascinating. How in the hell does this guy have an article on nearly every Wikipedia? AryKun (talk) 19:49, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  At the risk of derailing the conversation, that's truly amazing. I've never heard of him before, but Bleu has more Wikipedia articles than Mohammed, the Buddha, Napoleon, and Elizabeth II.

  Does anyone know the story with this? Did one of his fans decide to create an entry for him in 200 languages, or was it an SEO campaign, or something like that? I refuse to believe this occurred "naturally". I checked some of the revision histories in little-known languages (e.g. Greenlandic, Norfuk) and they were created by Saudi Arabian IP users, mostly circa 2010. Bizarre. Edit: I found a news article about this on Insider.com and they came to the same conclusion about a dedicated fan from Saudi Arabia.

  Anyway, this example definitely makes the case that number of sitelinks is not an infallible metric for notability. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 21:49, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  It never is, either on or off enwiki. Pop culture and sports etc. fans, editathons and numerous other factors influence these. The only focus should be on the main article of a topic and the relative importance of that in its field or otherwise. Gotitbro (talk) 03:12, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

  And Warne was a mistake. DarkSide830 (talk) 00:25, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose blurb for reasons given above, no indication that he had a significant influence on the sport as someone like Pele. Oppose RD for numerous unsourced statements on this article. --Masem (t) 18:34, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb per above. AryKun (talk) 20:14, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
• RD at least. Yes, one of the best players ever (and I grew up in England with him at his finest in the 1960s - he was a big part of English life at the time). Unsure whether he warrants a blurb.--A bit iffy (talk) 20:40, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb since I wouldn't vote for a blurb for any sportsballist, let alone one who I've never heard of This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 20:45, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose. Very short on citations. Moscow Mule (talk) 21:22, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb. I don't think he was so impactful that he reaches blurb level.  — Amakuru (talk) 21:55, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  I'll remember that when the next barely known baseball player get's a blurb. 91.125.140.227 (talk) 21:49, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose blurb per above rationale. Here we go again. The Kip 23:29, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
• Global survey It's the day after the death and, following the discussion of languages above, I just looked at the main pages of the 15 biggest Wikipedias to see how they compare. Bobby Charlton's death is currently on the main pages of the following language editions: Chinese, Dutch, French, German, Polish, Portuguese and Spanish. Looking at the exceptions, it seems that the following languages don't do any recent deaths: Italian, Japanese, Russian, Ukrainian and Vietnamese while the Arabic edition only seems to list people from the Arab world. So the only two major languages which are dragging their feet on this news are English and Swedish. "A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country..." Andrew🐉(talk) 09:41, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

  There are quality issues (lack of sources) that still present that prevent this from even going to RD. Masem (t) 11:47, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

  Thank you for that misrepresentation of statistics. I checked every single version you mentioned, and he is there in RD. We are not dragging our feet for RD, we're discussing whether or not he should have a blurb. None of those Wikipedias have him as a blurb, so what they have done is irrelevant here. AryKun (talk) 11:50, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

• We're discussing all aspects but I didn't get into the RD/blurb issue for those other languages because those details vary. For example, the German posting is "Bobby Charlton (86), englischer Fußballspieler († 21. Oktober)" while the French have "Bobby Charlton (photo)". These provide more details than an English RD and so are better. But my point was not the level of detail but the fact that most of those other languages have posted the news in a timely fashion. Presumably they are not hampered by the toxic process that we have here, which makes a battleground out of a simple announcement. Andrew🐉(talk) 16:39, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
  • The German Wikipedia does that for every RD they post, as you would have seen by the fact that the other 4 RD's right next to it also have the same type of shortdesc. The French Wikipedia also adds "photo" to every RD that is currently a photo. That is not details varying, that's just different RD formats, which is irrelevant to the discussion here. AryKun (talk) 18:10, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

• No one is making it toxic or a battleground here. It flat out fails quality purposes on en.wiki, which is a necessary requirement before even RD posting. Obviously, the other wikis have different quality rationales, which don't apply here. The de.wiki version of the articles has nearly zero sourcing, for example, which would never fly for even a normal BLP article here. Masem (t) 17:11, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

  I think comparing other language wikis to the English wiki is an effective strategy for making these discussions more toxic. They do what they do and aren't relevant to what we do. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:38, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

  Is someone going to send Andrew to ANI or not? I thought we were going to try and make an improvement on ITN/C as far as toxic behavior goes, and he has been repeatedly bringing up irrelevant statistics and arguments to nominations which do nothing to advance the discussion, nor help out whatsoever in getting the item posted. _{Duly signed,} ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 02:30, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

  No one can stop you. JM2023 (talk) 03:06, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

  @Admins willing to post ITN: Do any of you agree that Andrew Davidson's conduct on ITN is worth taking to ANI? BangJan1999 14:42, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

  Questions like that is not what that ping should be used for. Anarchyte (talk) 00:30, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose Blurb on notability. JM2023 (talk) 17:47, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

  So being a World famous player and World Cup winner isn't notable enough? Perhaps he should have played baseball or Gridiron. 91.125.140.227 (talk) 21:46, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

  Unless you're at least a current head of state or major political figure then you're not notable enough. I wouldn't even blurb Jimmy Carter. Do not strawman me. JM2023 (talk) 14:58, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support RD Appreciate we won't be adding a blurb but it's now overdue an RD. Conay (talk) 21:24, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support blurb - per my previously expressed view that people who are the subject of full length in depth obituaries in multiple sources in multiple countries merit a blurb. NYT, WaPo, The Times (London), Le Monde. Sources around the world view Bobby Charlton's passing as a news story worthy of significant space, so should we. And for the record, I had never heard of him prior to my NYT news alert, but, as ever, my own experiences are not the basis for inclusion or exclusion here. nableezy - 21:33, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support blurb considered one of the greatest of all time, with 200+ goals and a World Cup, he deserves his own blurb, RIP Kanyewestlover999 (talk) 21:42, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb Depending on who you ask, Sir Bobby Charlton is somewhere between the 20th and 30th best football player of all time. While talented and mourned, he doesn't reach the level needed for a blurb, as that tends to be reserved for the GOAT in a field, or at least the greatest of their generation. Blurbing Bobby Charlton would be on par with blurbing Gale Sayers in the NFL, Tom Seaver in baseball, Bobby Clarke in ice hockey, or Allan Border in cricket. While I'd agree that bigger sports have a stronger claim to cultural relevance and therefore notability, I still think that Bobby Charlton falls short of the blurb mark. NorthernFalcon (talk) 02:14, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
• Very weak support blurb should the massive sourcing problems be overcome. Charlton was certainly a massive figure in football, but I am still unconvinced that he rises to the level of a blurb; there are a number of still-living players who have achieved greatness but probably fall into this category. Indeed, there are very few players who would clearly qualify for a blurb (Messi, C. Ronaldo, Zidane, Beckenbauer, possibly Maldini and Buffon?) and hopefully we won't need to worry about any of thosev any time soon. Oh, and George Weah, but that's not just related to football. Black Kite (talk) 07:02, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Blurb - we can't blurb the death of every famous sportsperson. In this case, it is just "old man dies". -- Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 20:09, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

  Why not? It seems any old baseball player gets a blurb. 91.125.140.227 (talk) 21:43, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

  This October, the Real Main Page commemorates the deaths of five old baseball players and four young. Well, four between 50 and 70. All nine are probably fondly remembered by fans with the propensity to do so, yet none had their portrait hung in this tiny upper-right corner of a box some like to pretend is the important place. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:46, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support RD, neutral on blurb, but the RD/Blurb argument means we've gone three days without posting anything at all, so let's get it posted somewhere (RD) and then upgrade to a blurb if and when consensus emerges. 2A02:C7E:30F9:A600:FC7C:5C6F:5B54:7090 (talk) 19:17, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose on quality Article needs some ref work before posting can be done. Once the sourcing issues are addressed, I would support a blurb given how he's regarded as "one of the greatest players of all time", meaning he was influential in his field. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:04, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Cyclone Storm Tej

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Cyclone Storm Tej (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Cyclone Storm Tej to make landfall between Yemen and Oman on October 25 (Post)
News source(s): [10], [11], [12], [13], [14]
Credits:

• Created and nominated by Abo Yemen (talk · give credit)

 Abo Yemen✉ 13:33, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

• Wait until landfall actually occurs and we can determine the extent of damage. --Masem (t) 14:39, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose. No content in the target section and seemingly no related draft at the moment. DarkSide830 (talk) 16:16, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  fixed link. Check it now Abo Yemen✉ 16:54, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. The page has been changed to a redirect on several occasions, by several people, as recently as today, due to the storm not being set to make landfall for at least a few days. All have been reverted by you. - RockinJack18 17:17, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  can anyone close this nom Abo Yemen✉ 17:24, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) TV-D1 mission

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: TV-D1 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ India becomes the fourth country to master launch abortion technology through the TV-D1 mission as part of the manned Gaganyaan program. (Post)
News source(s): Indian Express Jagran
Credits:

• Nominated by MSN12102001 (talk · give credit)
• Created by Erick Soares3 (talk · give credit)

Article updated

 MSN12102001 (talk) 12:48, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Weak oppose - We usually only post launches rather than abort tests like this, but this is still a really cool event. I'm very impressed with how ISRO is advancing atm. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 13:46, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose An unmanned test launch is typically not the type of space exploration news we post. --Masem (t) 14:38, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
• Weak oppose per Precarious and Masem. Certainly an objective for the Indian crewed program, but not exactly fit for ITN. Iamstillqw3rty (talk) 19:26, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose on the grounds that it is the fourth country, not the first, not even the second, and not even the third. There is no way that this is notable. JM2023 (talk) 17:51, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Bill Hayden

Article: Bill Hayden (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [15]
Credits:

• Nominated by Happily888 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Governor-General of Australia, 1977–1983. Happily888 (talk) 06:27, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

From 1989 to 1996 per the article. Gotitbro (talk) 10:16, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Support on condition that the citation needed tags are removed. Bremps... 00:42, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

• The Weakest of Opposes 99% of the article is pretty well-sourced. However I cannot support because of the 1% that needs to be cited. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 03:51, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

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